This is a rush transcript from “Hannity,” April 19, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: All right. So under the cloak of environmentalism, the Obama administration pursuing perhaps the most radical so-called green agenda in American history. And to help him push his plan, Barack Obama has consistently surrounded himself with controversial activists, many of whom were never confirmed by the U.S. Senate.
Now communist sympathizer, ex-con Van Jones, 9/11-truther was installed as the White House green jobs czar. And although the administration’s vetters were always aware of his radical views, he was only ousted after programs like ours shined the spotlight on his past.
Another czar who continues to have the president’s ear is John — longtime global warming alarmist John Holdren. Now, he’s now serving as the director of the White House Office on Science and Technology Policy.
Also skirting the Senate confirmation process is climate czar Carol Browner. Now, her associations and extensive work in the environmental industry make her a walking conflict of interest at the highest level of the federal government.
Now, sadly, this is only part of the left-wing dream team that has been formed in order to ram through bills like cap and tax. And my next guest outlines all of this and much, much more in his brand-new book. It’s called “Power Grab: How Obama’s Green Policies will Steal Your Freedom and Bankrupt America.” New York Times best-selling author Chris Horner is with us.
Now, think about what we were just saying here. You know, steal your freedom and bankrupt America. How?
CHRIS HORNER, AUTHOR, “POWER GRAB”: Well, by moving decisions from individuals, producers and consumers, to the state. We’re talking about what you can drive. Of course, that’s level ground. But your fuel mix, what you can use, how much you can use of it.
Remember something: this is lost too often. We use the word “rationing” quite a bit. Cap and trade, the cap, it’s a rationing scheme. It’s an energy rationing scheme under which they give, for the first two years, allowances, ration coupons, and then they sell them. The president said in San Francisco, and it’s underreported, even though it was on YouTube, that his objective was to cause electricity rates to necessarily skyrocket. That’s true.
HANNITY: And we also know what he said about the coal-mining industry.
HORNER: But he also said this would raise billions of dollars. And that’s the point. When they say, “But it won’t cost anything,” they’re back filling. The point is to cost billions.
HANNITY: But what is the point here? Is the point — is this predicated on this idea that capitalists are evil, bad people that want to rape and pillage the planet because they want to make a profit? Is that — is that the foundation of all of this environmental stuff? Or is it socialism, or is it redistribution? What do you think? With all your studying, what have you concluded?
HORNER: Well, there’s not a universal motivator, but if you follow the money, you’ll see a lot of it, the motivation. But you’ll also see it comes down to power. And I make that case in “Power Grab.”
For example, we know — we begin on a point of agreement. The global warming agenda is not about the climate. And we know this because nothing ever proposed would effectively impact the climate. Ask every elected representative. You’d see what would the temperature be after cap and tax? And the answer is, whatever it was going to be. And nobody disagrees. So we know it’s unreasonable to believe it’s about the climate.
HANNITY: Look at this volcanic ash and cloud that is literally now preventing air travel all over the world. Compare that to what cap and trade supposedly would do for the environment, and it’s not even close, correct?
HORNER: Well, natural processes, certainly volcanoes over history of time dwarf man’s contribution. This isn’t about climate; it’s about power. And I so — I make the case by quoting the president, by quoting Carol Browner, by quoting Van Jones, by quoting organized labor.
Did you know that organized labor has a spokesman who said cap and trade and green jobs, quote, “is an economic restructuring Bill for the global economy, and we shouldn’t pretend that it isn’t.” OK.
HANNITY: But — but so that goes to my original question. So this is about distributed policy. This is about a social agenda. This is about, you know — this is really not about anything to do with the environment but about capitalism is bad, socialism, redistribution, to each according to his need, from each according to his ability, that’s good. No?
HORNER: That is always the objective; it never changes. To quote “Organized Society,” the only thing that changes is the vehicle. What’s the latest excuse for their goal of organizing society?
In Mark Levin’s book, “Liberty and Tyranny,” he points out that, since 1988 elected members from the left have been saying, even if it’s not true, we just have to ride this issue, because our agenda is the right thing to do. Go back and read the president’s State of the Union address — he said the same thing. This issue isn’t the issue.
HANNITY: You talk about the energy crisis in the country and in the world, basically, is manufactured. And then you outline something that we have talked a lot about on this program. Unelected, unaccountable, not confirmed by the Senate, radicals that have been appointed by the president. I’ve talked a lot about Van Jones and about John Holdren, and about Kevin Jennings and Carol Browner and some of these people. Explain how radical they are, because you go into great specificity here.
HORNER: OK. Carol Browner gave an interview to U.S. News, and for some reason, this has not been picked up and carried. She said, “Our objective is to get to the point where an electric company,” she said, can — “will be able to” — she means has to — “hold back some power so you can still cool your house, not to the level you want to, but to the level we think is appropriate.”
And she sells it as a savings to the consumer, because the poor dears can’t navigate that thermostat with an up and a down arrow. So you see, it’s about power. Your lifestyle is what they object to. There’s too many of you using too much stuff, having too many babies. And if you don’t believe me, I quote them.
HANNITY: Well, you also quote — I have been attacked because I quoted Holdren, our science czar, you know, who supports, you know, this compulsory population control idea. You actually have a quote of his on page 73 in your book, “The rate of growth of material consumption is going to have to come down. There’s going to have to be a degree of redistribution of how much we consume in terms of energy and material resources.”
That sounds like it’s straight out of Karl Marx’s, you know, handbook.
HORNER: And you know what it also sounds like? An admission that what they’re telling us, to force us off of the energy sources that work, is that the windmills, the solar panels and the pixie dust that they want to mandate actually can’t did the job. He said we have to drastically use much less energy so that others can. What does that tell you? The line that we can just swap out what works with the windmills and so on isn’t true. It’s energy rationing.
HANNITY: Here’s my last question, because I was reading your book. And I did a lot of research in my book. And I’m thinking about, all right, all these radicals have been appointed. And I’ve been saying to anybody that will do an interview with me that I think Barack Obama is the most radical president in American history.
In the beginning people laughed at me. Now it seems that the polls show the American people understand he’s not the moderate that he ran as. How did all of this happen and nobody pay attention? Where is the media in this country?
HORNER: Well, the point is that they didn’t pick up what I think would be damning admissions and fatal admissions to anyone’s campaign: “I want to cause your electricity rates to necessarily skyrocket. I will bankrupt politically disfavored industries. This will raise money.”
I have a Treasury Department document I obtained through the Freedom of Information Act here, written within a week after his election. Here’s what we can do now. They think cap and trade, energy rationing, using rationing coupons, would raise up to 400 billion dollars per year. It won’t cost anything. That would be almost by four times the biggest tax increase in our history: all pain, no gain. It’s not about the climate. The issue’s…
HANNITY: It’s funny, because we’re characterized as conservatives as being against the environment. I want to drill. I want new refineries. I’m an “all of the above guy.” I want nuclear power. And I also want to be good stewards of the gifts God gave us. But you don’t fall into the trap. Don’t fall into the trap.
HORNER: But the issue isn’t the issue. This isn’t about…
HANNITY: Capitalism’s not bad. Energy, the advancement of the human condition, is a good thing.
HORNER: If you want to know what energy poverty looks like, look at poverty, and that’s what they’re scripting for us, and that’s the objective. Because when the state controls power, they control the lot.
HANNITY: Good to see you, Chris. Good luck with the book.
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